But I met himI met everybodyaround 1968. DR: In your work, theres something in the interstices between thoughts thats both intriguing and active. Its small and a bit fragile. Shes made few changes to her approach to the work. Ill read a part of it: Alice Notley, Where Leftover Misery Goes inGrave of Light, Wesleyan University Press, 2006 (p.292-293), reproduced with permission of the author. After the war, that tradition was exhausted. Doug [Oliver] had died, and it was 2001. One knows ithere, not chains,posh garlands. Cars & the variously shod feet were born. That gives you a sense of the sound. Your brain becomes taffy. They are a grappling with it as a kind of a design problem. When I read The Descent of Alette I am tempted to treat the quotation marks between phrases as breath-markers like on a musical score. Way too . The first workshop that I taught was a crucial one for that generation actually. Your heart remembers its pumping. Its filthy; I dont remember how I got. 4. 91DR: You quote the powerful, assertive voice of Marianne Moore in a poem. Also in my poem Disobedience (2001), I got the title in a dream about him. In that sad, beautiful book, theres so much irony, whereas some literary critics take everything at face value. I dont give a I have some Cherokee Blood, perhaps one-sixteenth Cherokee. DR: Yes, the 1971 poem about writing an earlier poem of the same title, a characteristically clever poetic ploy. I was her teacher, though Im not much older than she is, about four years older. To revisit this article, select My Account, thenView saved stories, To revisit this article, visit My Profile, then View saved stories. Alice Notley has become one of America's greatest living poets. 6David Reckford: Among the physical, cultural, and intellectual environments that have formed your particular sensitivity, there seems to be several strong and contrasting places. ALICE NOTLEY has published more than twenty collections of poems. Wholeness is not the same as unity. Notleys next book, Mysteries of Small House (1998), is an experiment with the autobiographical mode, in which Notley was firstly trying to realize the first person singular as fully and nakedly as possible. Her subsequent book, Disobedience (2001), heads in the opposite direction, showing disobedience to the notions of truth and reality, featuring comic confrontations with reoccurring characters like Robert Mitch-ham, a man that closely resembles the actor Robert Mitchum. Poetry itself can be thought of as that which comes from afar. there was a picture of a model with antlers on her head and she was in a fashion show that day on the runwayshe was wearing antlers: it was a premonitory dream. Anne Waldman says that one thing she learned at that point was that the Hindus say carry your enemy on your shoulder. Thats a counter-intuitive idea. This is typical of what happens when I make a collage. 92AN: She was great. He could write any time he wanted to; Im like that too. always reinventing my practice, discovering what I believe is true and I always liked his paintings. focusing on the foot; and hes probably also aware of the foot when hes doing the short stanzas. While Notley had written on motherhood prior to Songs, this book was her first to focus fully on the matter and is the first full-length book of a New York School-affiliated poet to take on the task of addressing poetry's sexism and the pressures and setbacks of motherhood in both personal and creative life. Instead of ushering us toward received truth or false comfort, her work searches and invites us to look for ourselves. One of her main currents of experimentation has revolved around the search for a feminine epic, one that could serve as an alternative to the male stories that have dominated the history of poetry since Homer. 82AN: Its not a dance; its a pattern of sounds: its in my voice which I think is sometimes better than singing, when I say the poems. ASHBERY, John. I think its just all out there. AN: It was definitely weird to get food stamps. Notley's experimentation with poetic form, seen in her books 165 Meeting House Lane, When I Was Alive, The Descent of Alette, and Culture of One, ranges from a blurred line between genres, to a quotation-mark driven interpretation of the variable foot, to a full reinvention of the purpose and potential of strict rhythm and meter. NOTLEY, Alice. Left-wing Radicalism in the United States: A Foreign Creed? Courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. Perhaps the greatest OHara disciple in this sense is the poet Alice Notley, who, in the course of forty-plus years and forty-plus books, has repeatedly cited OHara as an influence while following her own unconventional path. (2005), and I have essays in it about her and Joanne Kyger, Ted Berrigan, Lorenzo Thomas, Frank OHara, and some others. Her mother was Polish and her father Irish. I dreamed about the children afterwards, you know, there were children being chased in this building. Mystery of Small Houses. Notley gave birth to her and Berrigan's second child, Edmund Berrigan, at Colchester Hospital in 1974. I thought that that printing added something, though: I enjoyed turning the book to read the poem. There are different paces and reading styles possible; the performance can be different each time. There is, however, some hope to be found in Millions of Us, which ends We have this project to / change our silence into the beautiful city of a voice. WILLIAMs, William Carlos. When I was writing such pieces and reading them they changed a lot; but it was about trying to get how the mind works, which meant I was writing generally as fast as I could while still keeping self-control, which is why I allowed all these part-words to come in. Notley citesin parta reading by Robert Creeley as early inspiration for her writing more poetry. Courtesy of the artist, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. 55DR: There was a pop song in the 1960s by the Three Dog Night, Joy to the World, which went: If I was the King of the World, Id throw away all the cars, thus broadcasting the idea. That particular poem is in your selected poems, in Grave of Light (2006), and it was presented upright on the page, but it was published in a review called Chain (2000) and in the Best American Poetry series (2001) where it was horizontal on the page. NOTLEY, Alice. 59DR: With your interpolation of popular culture into epic poetry, I would expect you to be a household name here in France. . BAYM, Nina. AN: To quote Jack Kerouac, avoid the authorities. If you have the talent you have to avoid them. The conjunctions are the most mysterious places in Johns work. URL: http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/13862; DOI: https://doi.org/10.4000/transatlantica.13862, Universit Paris Nanterre and cole nationale suprieure des beaux-arts de Paris, Creative Commons - Attribution - Pas d'Utilisation Commerciale - Pas de Modification 4.0 International - CC BY-NC-ND 4.0, https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/, Voir la notice dans le catalogue OpenEdition, Plan du site Mentions lgales et Crdits Liens Flux de syndication, Politique de confidentialit Gestion des cookies, Nous adhrons OpenEdition Journals dit avec Lodel Accs rserv, You will be redirected to OpenEdition Search. New York: Scarlet Editions, 1992. Request a transcript here. NOTLEY, Alice. The Indie rock group, (2005), collects a series of sensitive essays she wrote about her own poetry and that of others from her poetic. I had just been in the States. Doug [Oliver] had died, and it was 2001. 96DR: Well I think of Williams as a kind of Calder mobile waiting to enter into movement. I the People My mother had broken her hip. For example my poem In the Pines has been set to music by AroarA, who are two members of the Canadian, indie group, Broken Social Scene, Andrew Whiteman and Ariel Engle, whove done something mesmerizing; also, my son Eddie is both a poet and an indie musician: I know about some indie people from about 2000, not so much after that. Courtesy of Alice Notley, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018. Then I found all the spots around the world in them and talked about them as being set in the world as a whole, saying that was a fitting poetry for now, when were all crossing borders all the time: spanning geography is the main event today, because there are so many people. I used to substitute teach for him, sometimes, at Brooklyn College. Then I figured out how to write them, so they enter the text. There were four kids, including a couple still at home. The Prophet. How Spring Comes. Notley's early work laid both formal and theoretical groundwork for several generations of poets; she is considered a pioneering voice on topics like motherhood and domestic life. AN: Well, you learn a lot from teaching, at the beginning. He was my political education really. New York: TPR. DR: Well I think of Williams as a kind of Calder mobile waiting to enter into movement. , Wesleyan University Press, 2006 (p.292-293), reproduced with permission of the author. AN: Well, I broke it. It bears a dedication to James Schuyler and Anne and Fairfield Porter, who were also residing together on Long Island at the time. 50AN: Well possiblyI take in a lot of things that I dont know about, or that I dont remember. New York: Unimproved, 1986. New York: Scribner Poetry, 2001, p.120-124. I certainly wouldve used anything to keep from being sent. My poem The Prophet (1981) is based on his poem Some General Instructions (1971). The stream of shattered consciousness is occasionally punctuated by shaped picture-poems, variously representing a ship, a face, a winged coyote. In her essay The Poetics of Disobedience, Notley writes, I've been trying to train myself for thirty or forty years not to believe anything anyone tells me. In this apocalyptic, darkly funny, and, indeed, gutsy poem from Songs and Stories of the Ghouls (2011), Notley indicts logic itselfthe so-called common sense that reduces poetry to gender and experience to the known and erases whole cities in the whirlwind of war. 49DR: In that book, the heroine is a true medium who can look at someones face and know things, and at the end she is taken off to the asylum; Andr Breton then rails for two pages about how misguided asylums are, which makes your collage seem to be broaching the question of clairvoyance in terms of surrealistic, poetic culture. Notley's 1985 play "Anne's White Glove," a commission by Ada Katz's Eye and Ear Theater navigated the pain of Berrigan's death, and her collections Margaret & Dusty (Coffee House, 1985), Parts of a Wedding (Unimproved Editions, 1986), and At Night the States (The Yellow Press, 1987) contain material written during a period of mourning. 99AN: Frank caught how great Pictures from Breughel and Other Poems (1962) was. I thought that they were voices of dead French people, but they just came from everywhere; the voices came for that poem. In 1972, Notley married Berrigan and the two moved to Chicago where Berrigan had been given Ed Dorn's newly vacated teaching position at Northeastern Illinois University. Ive never thought of her as a poet: sometimes I think she doesnt know anything about poetry at all. I always seem to be erasing and starting over, rather than picking up where I left off, even if I wind up taking up the same themes. New York: Granary Books, 2006. How, in your view, did humanity get itself in such a predicament? In this short poem from her 1980 book When I Was Alive, Notley describes a female god who creates, instead of light, lightbulbs & liquefaction, who teaches us affection for paintings and films and the limitations of words. (1945) a couple of years ago because she was being bashed in the States again: they were underlining her Vichy connections in order to make her into a kind of villain, without any regard for how difficult it must have been: a lesbian living with another lesbian, in her sixties, in a country that wasnt her own country, Jewish, thus a prime candidate for the camps. New York: Penguin Books, 1977. The others were like me, though Hispanic and black. At the moment, it feels like theres not much going on there; because its all going on at the surface actually. BAYM, Nina. She is the author of more than thirty-five books of poetry, includingMysteries of Small Houses(Penguin, 1998, winner of the Los Angeles Times Book Prize and a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize);Disobedience(Penguin, 2001, winner of the Griffin Prize); andGrave of Light: New and Selected Poems 1970-2005, which received the Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize. This guy is doing vinyl records of poets and hes done a series including one of me and one of Eileen [Myles]. 109DR: I wouldnt be able to take the journey if I couldnt hear the poem.. Did it influence you? 114AN: To quote Jack Kerouac, avoid the authorities. If you have the talent you have to avoid them. DR: Such natural presences are important. But every time he quoted somebody he misquoted him or her without even knowing it, so he always made the texture his own. New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1979, p. 911-1772. DR: Speaking of Anne Waldman somehow makes me think of the presence of Native Americans in your work. . The sense of something escaping is well illustrated by your poem, Where Leftover Misery Goes, among others. The conjunctions are the most mysterious places in Johns work. I wonder about it later, but actually it always seems like it is justified: I think the people that I mentioned in. DR: I wouldnt be able to take the journey if I couldnt hear the poem.. 4Since then, her poetry has continued to flow and evolve. OHaras insouciance has made his work popularan antidote to the high seriousness that poetry sometimes invokes to prove its worth. 103DR: There are some lines from your poems, wrought like those in Stein, that one could carry in ones head all day and it would color that day; for example, that thinks but not only on words is one; all thats left of the old world are beautiful voices, is another that might change ones day. By signing up, you agree to our User Agreement and Privacy Policy & Cookie Statement. Light as airmail paper away she flew. The poet and essayist talks about her newest essay collection Minor Feelings, waking Alice Notley, Al Filreis, Erica Kaufman, Joe Milutis, Zack Pieper. I was wondering about your thoughts on Native Americans. It was Alice Notley who would be in the spring session in 2007. She has lived most extensively in Needles, in New York, and since 1992 in Paris, France. Young poets on the Chicago scene regularly hung out with Notley and Berrigan at their home and many followed the couple back to New York City in the late 70s. Somewhere, I have a photo of my father with a snake in his mouth and every year that he did it, he got a little tattoo of a star on his hand; and my mother danced the year she was pregnant with me the Hopi Corn Maidens Dance, and she taught me the song later, and my father taught me the chant for the Apache Dog Dance. Reading in Buffalo, New York, April 10, 1987, Last edited on 23 February 2023, at 11:09, "A conversation with Alice Notley on the poet's novel - Jacket2", "Dreaming As One, by Kevin Opstedal Chapter 11", "Stephanie Anderson with Alice Notley the Conversant", "onedit 5 Alice Notley: Great Interiors, Wines and Spirits of the World", "Naropa Poetics Audio Archives: Free Audio: Free Download, Borrow and Streaming: Internet Archive", "Alice Notley Awarded 2015 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize by Harriet Staff", "Bay Area Public School Announces Three-Day Symposium on Alice Notley by Harriet Staff", Griffin Poetry Prize reading, including video clip, The Electronic Poetry Center at Buffalo University's entry on Alice Notley, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alice_Notley&oldid=1141106504, Eurynome's Sandals (Presses universitaires de Rouen et du Havre, 2019), This page was last edited on 23 February 2023, at 11:09. Philip Gourevitch. There are passing moments that neednt be dwelled upon, but if youre going to go to war against a couple of countries, I think you merit an accusation of doing just that. Need a transcript of this episode? Like somebody live in some city. They were the CDs that my son made and sent me; there are a lot of miss-hearings of Bob Dylan songs, as well as just a lot of folk songs that I already knew, in that work. It was reissued in 2021 by the London-based small press Distance No Object. Ive always taken up that ambient context in my poems. In a poem from the seventies, Notley mocks the downtown sensibility of the time with an older male poets rant: No women poets are any / good, if you want it / Straight, because they dont handle money.. The poet Heather Christles book, which is built of fragments of varying lengths, examines the science, sociology, and history of weeping. 86AN: The whole book is about her, actually: she and Medea keep coming back. There were four kids, including a couple still at home. 51My current process is to write in the morning. This is perhaps one of Notleys ways of repurposing male influences: what for Apollinaire seemed like a bold transcription of modern life, evoking the frenetic motion of photography and film, is for Notley a figure of timelessness and stillness, a place where picture and pictogram cant be fully pulled apart. It was a collaboration of sorts, though I generally do not collaborate; I really hate it. His zips are like obelisks; theyre like sculptures inside the paintings. 34AN: I met him once, Barnett Newman, right before he died. poets act like a middle-aged mother trying to get her kids to eat too A calligram by Guillaume Apollinaire, from La Petite Auto (1918). Shehad two sons with him, the poets Edmund and Anselm Berrigan. There was pleasure in working with that discovery. Are its voices one or many? Teds father worked for the Tip-Top Bread factory and died when he was fifty of a heart attack, after being laid off due to mechanization. DR: Now I heard you say that the cadences for, AN: I actually listened to Monteverdi to get the cadences that were before, : particularly in White Phosphorus (1988) and at the end of Beginning with a Stain, . Her children, Anselm Berrigan and Edmond Berrigan are both New York Poets of a younger generation. 26DR: In her Paris Review interview (2015) she says that she learned from John Ashbery never to complete a thought, which is a rich idea. Referring back to her writing in the 1970s in an interview with the Ampersand Review, Notley says she felt she was the only poet I knew of who used the details of pregnancy and motherhood as a direct, pervading subject in poems, on a daily basis, as if it were true that half the people in the world gave birth to others and everyone had been born. Poems from this time include Clinical Thermometer Set with Moonstone and How Spring Comes. So, there were people from all different professions at the table, a few Americans and some artistic peoplebut not that many. Revue dtudes amricaines. 40AN: Well, I broke it. Since I had all these poems without titles, I just randomly assigned Rons titles to the poems that ended up in. AN: Its not a dance; its a pattern of sounds: its in my voice which I think is sometimes better than singing, when I say the poems. Ive always taken up that ambient context in my poems. Whether it's an object or a person, the over-accentuation of gender in relation to form allows for the. At Night the States The poetry community in Bolinas was particularly strong at the time, withJoanne Kyger,Philip Whalen,Bill Berkson,Robert Creeley, and Bobbie Louise Hawkins all among its residents. I had it for a long time and it started to break. New York: Granary Books, 2006. 36AN: Like dolmensyes, something like that. Alice scared me. In this Poem Talk podcast devoted to this poem, it is read as a sort of non-political political poem, bringing the personal into the public. The books were published under the imprint Unimproved Editions and Notley made cover art for the majority of the titles. Sometimes I have in-between projects and that is a tough situation; because, I usually dont write as well then, indeed, I never quite know what to do at those moments. Im working on arcane things at the moment which I find hard to talk about. There werent a lot of cacti where I lived, but there were a lot of bushes. So, there were people from all different professions at the table, a few Americans and some artistic peoplebut not that many. Nick Sturm: It's the point where, when you've made so many books, of course manuscripts are talking to you. Table of Contents Notleys work stands as a testament to how difficult it is to be truly individual. [16] Over two nights, November 14 and 15, 2016, Notley read The Descent of Alette in its entirety at The Lab in San Francisco. I just sat in here and wrote about Allen and the international aspect of his work. Too many Have you read that book? He taught some writing: one writing class, and one civilization and literature class. [3] The Crying Book Reveals How Tears Can Help Us, and How They Cant. 122DR: Anne Waldman was an important figure with the [St. Marks] poetry project. I mean sometimes theres a lot of garbage but not usable garbage and so it takes me a long time to get anything made. Poetry itself can be thought of as that which comes from afar. New York: Columbia Records, 1989. That particular poem is in your selected poems, in, , and it was presented upright on the page, but it was published in a review called. At the same moment, at Saint Marks, Bernadette Mayer, Anne Waldman, and I taught poetry workshops. 33DR: I think for the reader those part-words can function to foreground an elsewhere. She received a BA from Barnard College in 1967, and an MFA from the the Writers' Workshop at the University of Iowa in 1969. Death is for a moment, beauty is for all time, about World War II and people being away at the war. AN: He had no trust in his own ability to write things out, while he had faith in his ability to find things. Notley wrote extensively of her childhood and early life in her book Tell Me Again (Am here, 1982). In 2015, she was awarded the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize. I had just been in the States. The text is visually striking with quotation marks surrounding each poetic foot, intended to slow the reader down and indicate the pace at which the book is to be read. I also have a vinyl record, its like one of those jazz albums. You know that quotation from a Paris Review interview (1983) that everything is this underground river and you can just draw from it any time you want to. Photo by Gezett/ullstein bild via Getty Images, Jack Would Speak Through the Imperfect Medium of Alice, Poems of Protest, Resistance, and Empowerment, 2015 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize Winner: Alice Notley, The Goddess Who Created This Passing World, Have Made Earth as the Mirror of Heaven, Jack Would Speak Through the Imperfect Medium of Alice, Democracy at 10th & A: A Discussion of Alice Notleys poem "I the People", July/August 2015: "Cranberry Cranberry Cranberry". A dream about him it takes me a long time to get food.... Changes to her and Berrigan 's second child, Edmund Berrigan, Brooklyn! She is, about World War II and people being away at the beginning theres so much irony, some... Mobile waiting to enter into movement the whole book is about her,:... Peoplebut not that many Im like that too series including one of those jazz.... 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S greatest living poets same moment, at the War Myles ] Set with Moonstone and how spring.. Surface actually with Moonstone and how spring comes Waldman, and since 1992 in Paris,.. Artistic peoplebut not that many doesnt know anything about poetry at all ( 1981 ) is based on his some! An important figure with the [ St. Marks ] poetry project reinventing my,... Shehad two sons with him, the poets Edmund and Anselm Berrigan and Edmond Berrigan are both new York and. Talent you have the talent you have to avoid them, p. 911-1772 her hip you have to them. Lilly poetry Prize to break perhaps one-sixteenth Cherokee a collage vinyl records of poets and hes done a series one!, theres so much irony, whereas some literary critics take everything at face value her and Berrigan 's child... Johns work I was her teacher, though: I enjoyed turning the book to read Descent. That alice notley the prophet taught poetry workshops Notley, re-photographed by Daesong Kim, April 2018 obelisks theyre! 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