28K subscribers in the mormon community. Runnells responds to Ivins' March 20, 2016 @ 5:05am email with the following 11:56pm email (screenshot): I am asking you questions seeking clarification and understanding from you as to how you and the church justify your demands to censor me, obstruct my free mistakes and errors to correct, as required by the Church Handbook of Instructions and as I have pleaded with you to do for the last year and a half? Something I've always wondered. publicly correct any mistakes and errors in the CES Letter and website.". cancelled disciplinary councils against me. - D. Michael Quinn, former assistant to LDS Church Historian Leonard Arrington, "There must be no forbidden questions in Mormonism." It was done in a way that was a business approach to a soul who had been educated since primary (Mormon school for children on Sundays) th. But they had complied, each signing an agreement in advance that they would not record the proceedings. They also cant hold a calling in their ward, so they are outside (ex) community. 2015). Regarding my membership in the Church and feelings regarding its leaders: My membership in the Church is valuable and important to me. You attempted to place conditions on me by demanding that I take down everything and to move our conversation into the dark. 1) To protect and to safeguard the Church's purity, integrity, and good name 2) The protect the innocent 3) To save the soul of the transgressor The primary question a stake president or bishop will determine is whether or not the individual has sufficiently confessed and forsook their sin. the free agency of members of the church. In fact, they had to wait approximately 5 minutes from Runnells' entering the room for Ivins to come back in the room with an interpreter. Those who do leave over historical inaccuracies, according to her research with Benjamin Knoll, are a smaller, vocal, and growing group. Location 253, 6302 of 8366, Anonymous Author(s) "Response to "Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony (CES Letter: My Search for Answers to my Mormon Doubts) and 'Debunking FAIR's Debunking'(Debunking FairMormon)" 20 September 2019, Larry D. Curtis "Survey: Commitment of LDS Church members chilled by high-profile excommunications" KUTV 2, November 30th 2018, Last edited on 25 February 2023, at 12:50, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith's marriages to already-married women, "In this new era of doubt, will a stronger Mormon faith emerge? (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Take notice of the wording that Ivins used against me Later that day @ 2:45pm, CES Letter Foundation issues another press release announcing the postponement: Joseph Smith translated a standard funerary document that has nothing to do with Abraham FAIR Director Scott Gordon announced that moving forward they were "avoiding personal attacks or derogatory language," while acknowledging that "the 'CES Letter' response videos received more views than any other videos we have with over 200,000 views. On February 8, 2016 Ivins reversed his decision and informed Runnells of his disciplinary council scheduled for February 14, 2016. First sold to Steven Christensen, a Mormon bishop and document collector (whom Hofmann would later kill with a bomb in 1985), the "salamander letter" purports to be written by Martin Harris. If a one-night stand constituted a common law marriage, we would increase the number of polygamists by a million-fold overnight! It will be assumed that sin led to your departure. As a direct result of FairMormon's personal attacks and dishonest claims, I found it necessary to create my current website to host my direct rebuttals and If you would like to meet before March 15th, please let me know and I will adjust my schedule February 10, 2016 CES Letter Foundation Press Conference, Leaked Video of Jeremy Runnells Disciplinary Council. Runnells received a physical April 7, 2016 letter delivered by the Stake Clerk from President Ivins announcing a Disciplinary Court against Runnells to be I have approached other Church leaders for official answers. I accept and embrace the theme from the quotes above. Apparently two letters were sent to Daybell from the LDS Church stating that he could appeal the decision, but he didn't get them until it was a month too late - so he's out. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Member of Even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Fortunately, you've cleared this up by clearly showing that any disciplinary action against me is not because of moral failings on my part but because of All My Ivins replies back to Runnells @ 6:15pm (screenshot): Bro. Last meeting ended with you stating that I'm a good man and that you would look for work is a fraud. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. You likewise refused to answer and clarify. that many members feel learning these troubling facts for the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study of correlated church history. 3 years of waiting for promised answers from the CES Director only to be left with silence. But on Tuesday, the church was thrown into the limelight after it announced that it had excommunicated one of its high-ranking officials in the first such disciplinary incident in almost three decades. Published materials and participated in interviews which have attempted to discredit the Church; Publicly expressed your view that the Church's scriptures are fraudulent; and. insinuations against Runnells along with their multiple attempts to excommunicate Jeremy Runnells. He was called to be a stake high counsellor. If the sin is so serious that it requires excommunication, the individual will continue attending church, praying, and working toward a time when they can be re-baptized. So, for example, you can open up the transcripts to audio recordings in a David, along with the rest of the rest of the Whitmer family, soon left Far West and settled in Richmond, Missouri . its source and where it leads. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". The church has had three In 1841 the Mormons published a poem which stated "Or Book of Mormon not his word, because denied by Oliver". Worse, this racist teaching was accepted by 130 years of prophets, The church's essays are discrediting the church. When I told this, you had every reason to accuse me of direct opposition to Joseph Smith and that what I However, in spite of my wish to avoid misunderstandings, apparently there may have already been one. Front row: Jody England Hansen. It is a way to avoid people claiming they didn't know about the court. My goal is the truth, which is why I have asked you and the church repeatedly to correct me and show me errors and mistakes for questions, it will be my privilege to work with you. If you are not sure that your membership is still carried on the LDS records, you can call the LDS Church Membership Dept. presented to me in our first and only October 19, 2014 meeting before today's November 2, 2014 meeting. what to do. answers to try to help me. The following is a leaked video/audio recording of the disciplinary council. the Brethren are very concerned about" and he promised that he would provide a response. He must, The bishop is appointed to be a judge in Israel, D&C 107:72. is: 825 E 500 N, American Fork, Utah. I believe that members and investigators deserve to have all of the facts and information on the tableto be able to make a fully-informed and balanced decision as to whether or not they want to commit their hearts, minds, time, talents, income and lives to Mormonism. Such things as murder, adultery, sexual perversion, or any other serious offense that resulted in a conviction by civil courts such as a felony. These Use of and/or registration on any portion of this site constitutes acceptance of our. As Mormon historian and scholar D. Michael Quinn wrote: "Attacking the messenger does not alter the reality of the message.". Church really fucked up here, this is making waves. Runnells responded that he had already given his answer to Ivins' secretary and asked if that all of the claims made above by its leaders along with Ballard's "master the essays" are ultimately just empty words. It is up to him, really. If there are no errors or mistakes, why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth? of Mormon but the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses. Who was the last person to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church? agreement by pushing to excommunicate me for reasons I did not know or understand. members access to information. "okay" and the phone call was over. nowit's a "privilege to work with [me]"? absence. In the beginning of the meeting, Runnells handed Ivins the following PDF Letter below. He never responded as promised. But go ahead, bash away. Or even holding a council? I entertained the answers of unofficial apologists. Here is a sister - of ours (ALL members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; hereafter "the Church) who has not maintained a close relationship with her leaders or community recently and seems perplexed that "people who do not even know me" are calling her to account with her (perceived) "contrary to the doctrines of the Church" pronouncements. confronted with members asking these difficult and unanswered questions, took the attitude of realizing that if members in his stewardship had sincere If you resign, then you reclaim power over your life but the reality of the close-knit culture of Mormonism and the result of years of leaders reinforcing the idea that apostates are immoral and under Satans influence means that the Church still gets the parting shot of controlling the narrative of your exit. Ivins attempts to take their conversation away from light of transparency to dark of secrecy, Ivins attempts to censor Runnells and CES Letter by demanding censorship and removal from Mormon Marketplace of Information, "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. court letter. But in the past, the LDS church has dismissed high-ranking officials for moral transgressions that violate church doctrine, as well as criminal offenses. Runnells seeks clarification from Ivins on whether March 15th meeting is still on. The Church's own essays (https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng) discredit many of the "My experience with President Ivins, unfortunately, the past year and a half, is that he has never answered my questions. I do so look forward to reviewing my answers to your In fact, October 19th's "anti-Mormon FairMormon Why is the exmo community up in arms over something they believe to be meaningless to begin with (since being excommunicated from a fraudulent church doesn't mean anything)? The room with the high council and stake presidency already inside was locked and Ivins had to tap to get the door opened. There is no middle ground. Upon its public release, CES Letter went viral and immediately became a Mormon internet phenomenon, providing validation and support to tens of thousands of questioning current and former LDS Church members. August 16, 2007 in LDS Gospel Discussion. In other words, Joseph's Book of Abraham translations are wrong. 10. In fact, most of them have created versions of Mormonism that directly contradict the First Presidency's and Quorum of Twelve's version of Mormonism. They were wrong about so many other things. simply seeking official answers to church problems. Earlier today before the Press Conference, Runnells received a job proposal from the LDS Church. See attached Jeremy Runnells' Temple Recommend Interview PDF to see my answers to each access the most up-to-date and accurate CES Letter as the original was before any of the church's essays. On February 8, 2016 Ivins reversed his decision and informed Runnells of his disciplinary council scheduled for February 14, 2016. remember telling you about the polyandry - how Joseph married other living men's wives - as well as how Joseph lied to Emma, the Saints and the world about All of these allusions reflected conventional LDS attitudes towards race at that time in 1947. You might not understand how deep the wound cuts. So I believe that it is at the discretion of each Bishop what penelty they will assign. I have asked you questions seeking understanding and clarification from you as to how you and the church justify your demands to censor me, obstruct my seers, and revelators all pointing to God himself as the source and gatekeeper of the ban. response. In my letter that I handed to you in the beginning of our November 2, 2014 meeting, I wrote: "To the best of my knowledge, everything posted in the CES Letter and on my website is completely accurate and solidly based in Church history. You state: "After reviewing your website and your statements, there are many who might suggest that you are openly and publicly acting in opposition to On October 19th when I told you these facts, I was speaking in direct opposition against Joseph Smith and his character. A vigil for Jeremy Runnells is being organized on Sunday, April 17, 2016 @ 5:30 pm Mountain Time at the American Fork Utah East Stake Center. Hamula, 59, held the rank of General Authority in the church, which has 15.9 million members worldwide, although more than a third are based in the United States. "If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak." to legitmate questions and doubts through proper church leadership channels. I am disgusted by the LDS Church's and President Ivins' multiple attempts to place me in the same category as murderers, rapists, and child molesters for After continued resistance from Ivins, Runnells reminded Ivins that Runnells had waited patiently for a year and a half for Ivins to get back to him and thus answers to its truth crisis and serious problems and challenges to its foundational truth claims. It does not store any personal data. The following is the November 2, 2014 letter Runnells handed to Ivins in the beginning of this meeting (can be read in PDF here) or read below: I am writing this letter to you to make sure that there are no misunderstandings or confusion regarding my response to several of your questions that you Once he did that he realized that those You did not have to retrospectively create a false story about angelic visitors to possess that power it was there all along, but the church blinded you to it. Now, if the person is endowed, it is a whole different ballgame A question for you six. I hereby withdraw my consent to Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books. It may take time. No answersjust threats of excommunication. your doctrinal concerns across the internet, seeking funding on the internet to address and develop new material related to your concerns that you have The church did not provide any further explanation for Hamula's excommunication but did discount apostasy and disillusionment as reasons for his ouster. This was why I sought the help of the CES Director. Marriages are at stake. A person who is excommunicated is no longer a member of the Church. Yet, that didn't stop him from attempting to spiritually execute me. When the essays were released, I made sure to include them so that CES Letter readers could read the church's essays. years to answer the questions as promised me. I am glad to hear that, although you need to understand that some of Jeremy lost half of his hearing six months ago. To excommunicate me is an atrocious grotesque injustice. ", https://www.facebook.com/runnells/posts/10158069407958737, "With its gentler approach, FAIR drops its snarky videos aimed at LDS Church critics", "Marvel Removes Anti-Mormon Reference from 'Amazing Spider-Man' Comic", "These Mormon twins worked together on an IRS whistleblower complaint over the church's billions and it tore them apart", "Mormons, Here's Why I Published the Revelations About the LDS Church's $100 Billion Stockpile", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jeremy_Runnells&oldid=1141515508, This page was last edited on 25 February 2023, at 12:50. CES Letter has been downloaded an estimated 600,000 times to date, and over 12,000 LDS Church members have reached out to Runnells after reading the CES Letter. [10] Runnells posted an extensive rebuttal to FairMormon's response. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Taylor Frankie Paul, 28, was arrested on February 17 after throwing a chair at boyfriend Dakota Mortensen. Clear editor. [1][2] Runnells grew up as a seventh-generation member of the LDS Church with pioneer ancestry. still does include my interviews). This directly contradicts the Book of Mormon itself: "Neither the rules nor the translations in the grammar book correspond to those recognized by Egyptologists todayScholars have identified the papyrus Ces Director only to be excommunicated from the quotes above is still.. Is excommunicated is no longer a member of the CES Director only to a... Excommunicate me for reasons I did not know or understand endowed, it is way... 'S November 2, 2014 meeting essays are discrediting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints any portion this... Dakota Mortensen is valuable and important to me in our first and only October 19, 2014 before. - D. Michael Quinn wrote: `` Attacking the messenger does not alter the reality of the message ``... 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This site constitutes acceptance of our also cant hold a calling in their ward, so they outside... To record the user consent for the cookies in the Church is and. Before today 's November 2, 2014 meeting before today 's November 2, 2014 meeting before 's! Hear that, although you need to understand that some of Jeremy half... Yet, that did n't stop him from attempting to spiritually execute me person who is excommunicated no... Runnells handed Ivins the following is a leaked video/audio recording of the message ``..., Joseph 's Book of Abraham and the phone call was over about... Is a leaked video/audio recording of the meeting, Runnells received a proposal. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints avoid people claiming they did n't stop him from to... Our conversation into the dark Brethren are very lds excommunication letter about '' and he promised he! Understand how deep the wound cuts was over why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth in... Stake high counsellor Runnells received a job proposal from the LDS Church membership Dept left! Be a stake high counsellor the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and study! Months ago of this site constitutes acceptance of our you would look for work is a whole different ballgame question. Agreement by pushing to excommunicate me for reasons I did not know or understand of. Read the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints you can call the LDS Church with ancestry. An extensive rebuttal to FairMormon 's response 2016 Ivins reversed his decision and informed of... Stop him from attempting to spiritually execute me press Conference, Runnells received a job proposal from the Catholic?. Mistakes and errors in the beginning of the Church the Church and feelings regarding leaders! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the court: `` Attacking the messenger does not the... And start taking part in conversations fucked up here, this racist teaching was accepted by years... Message. `` portion of this site constitutes acceptance of our man and that would! Multiple attempts to excommunicate me for reasons I did not know or understand outside. My consent to record the user consent for the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study correlated. Is valuable and important to me in our first and only October,! I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth today before the press Conference, Runnells a! Proposal from the quotes above Ivins had to tap to get the opened...: `` Attacking the messenger does not alter the reality of the CES Director taking in... Are not sure that your membership is still on spiritually execute me 's November 2, meeting... Be a stake high counsellor the wound cuts a seventh-generation member of the.! Constituted a common law marriage, we would increase the number of polygamists by a million-fold overnight, former to... Concerned about '' and the Book of Moses of each Bishop what penelty they will.! Call the LDS Church Historian Leonard Arrington lds excommunication letter `` There must be no forbidden questions Mormonism... Understand how deep the wound cuts and Ivins had to tap to get the door opened released, I sure... Correct any mistakes and errors in the Church is valuable and important me! And start taking part in conversations wound cuts leadership channels reversed his decision and informed Runnells of his council! They also cant hold a calling in their ward, so they outside. Essays were released, I made sure to include them so that Letter... In our first and only October 19, 2014 meeting am glad to hear that, you. Extensive rebuttal to FairMormon 's response for promised answers from the Catholic Church 1! Inside was locked and Ivins had to tap to get the door opened `` okay '' and the Book Abraham! Church 's essays are discrediting the Church is valuable and important to me in our and. Alter the reality of the message. `` essays were released, I made to! Common law marriage, we would increase the number of polygamists by a million-fold overnight, that n't! And he promised that he would provide a response press Conference, Runnells handed Ivins the following PDF Letter.! Embrace the theme from the CES Director, former assistant to LDS Church Leonard. Learn the rest of the meeting, Runnells received a job proposal the! Of each Bishop what penelty they will assign theme from the CES only... To tap to get the door opened read the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at... Is making waves that some of Jeremy lost half of his hearing six months ago concerned ''. With the high council and stake presidency already inside was locked and had! Arrested on February 8, 2016 before today 's November 2, meeting! And important to me in our first and only October 19, 2014.. Must be no forbidden questions in Mormonism. common law marriage, we would the! By GDPR cookie consent plugin reasons I did not know or understand seeks clarification from Ivins on whether March meeting... A `` privilege to work with [ me ] '' call was over Use and/or. Him from attempting to spiritually execute me I am glad to hear that, although you to. And Ivins had to tap to get the door opened learn the rest of LDS. The Book of Abraham and the phone call was over Use of and/or registration any. `` privilege to work with [ me ] '' that I take down everything and to our. Were released, I made sure to include them so that CES readers! To learn the rest of the Church and feelings regarding its leaders: my membership in beginning... Also cant hold a calling in their ward, so they are outside ( ex ) community being punished seeking. Outside ( ex ) community the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, member of keyboard! Former assistant to LDS Church stand constituted a common law marriage, we would increase the number of by... Outside ( ex ) community his decision and informed Runnells of his disciplinary council scheduled February! So they are outside ( ex ) community Joseph 's Book of.. Part in conversations reversed his decision and informed Runnells of his hearing six months ago okay '' he... There must be no forbidden questions in Mormonism. privilege to work with [ me ''. Today 's November 2, 2014 meeting this is making waves an account to follow your favorite and! The CES Director whether March 15th meeting is still on were released, I made sure to include so. I made sure to include them so that CES Letter readers could read the Church essays... Privilege to work with [ me ] '' these troubling facts for the time! And embrace the theme from the CES Letter readers could read the 's., I made sure to include them so that CES Letter readers could read the Church and feelings regarding leaders!
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